'Outer College' A.A. lineage

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Postby frateruranus » Sun Aug 02, 2009 9:10 am

The Outer College is made up of former students of Marcelo Motta who continued to do the work after leaving Motta & finding other instructors in the system like Grimaud, Harry Smith & others. The best sell for them is Daniel Gunther's excellent Initiation in the Aeon of the Child: The Journey Inwards. These guys get my highest regards as they have worked to formulate the A.'.A.'. along the lines that Crowley envisioned but could never fully implement due to a lack of manpower etc. On the same token they have been controversial as the editors of the Equinox & some problems with congestion in the lower grades. I suggest checking out Gunther's work, I think it is probably the most important text on the A.'.A.'. system since Crowley's death, & then make a decision of whether to affiliate.
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The Outer College

Postby Persephone » Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:51 am

'I suggest checking out Gunther's work, I think it is probably the most important text on the A.'.A.'. system since Crowley's death...'

93 Frateruranus, I agree with you that it is an important book, I'd like to add that as others have said, it is not for beginners. Even those who are used to serious books on magick may find it at times, slow going. :) Persephone
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Re: 'Outer College' A.A. lineage

Postby Jim Eshelman » Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:43 pm

Oscillate wrote:The only information I have been able to find is that may be connected with the lineage of Soror Grimaud a.k.a Helen Parsons-Smith. Is anyone able to confirm whether this is correct and/or its legitimacy?

It is our policy generally not to comment on lineages per se. However, there is a matter pertaining to an individual and historical accuracy.

This is actually the first time I've heard of a Soror Grimaud lineage. It surprises me no end, because I knew Helen well - she stayed at my house for weeks on end - I visited her in King's Beach. She thought I reminded her of Jack in the best and worst senses (as these filtered through an ex-wife's projections - I wasn't ever sure that was a compliment! <g>). And, for a few years, I was her "favorite son" of the hour, the primary benefactor of her estate, and titles, and what have you etc.

That all changed long before she died, but I mention it just to say that I probably stand a good of knowing a thing about her, and she was quite clear that she was never in the A.'.A.'.. Wilfred never brought her in, Monty never brought her in, and nobody else (by her statement) ever brought her in.

I truly know nothing at all about whoever might be claiming anything in her name, the basis of the claim, etc., and I even allow that they might know something about this that I don't. It just seemed that I should mention what I know.
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"Success is thy proof: argue not; convert not; talk not overmuch!" - CCXX 3:42
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Postby frateruranus » Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:20 pm

Thanks for the history lesson. I think Soror Grimaud as an A.'.A.'. teacher is a misunderstanding because Martin Starr was working with her in the years following his falling out with Motta & Starr's later work on Wilfred's biography. I don't know for sure & this is pure Rvach masturbation on my part, so take it for what it's worth. If I hear anything otherwise I'll post it here...

No, I do not work with the Outer College...

As to my opinion of Gunther's book. I stand by that opinion. I think that, outside of Motta's commentaries, that Gunther's book is the first major text to take Thelema as a whole, not just the Book of the Law, but the rest of the Holy Books & Liber 418, into consideration in its analysis of the A.'.A.'. system from the mystical perspective. Where Jim's book, also a key post Crowley text, is more akin to Regardie's Golden Dawn or Secret Rituals of the OTO without violating Oaths, Gunther's book is a step forward in many ways and a revelation of sme of the more interesting elements of the symbolism of the A.'.A.'. such as the LPD elements as well as his analysis of VVVVV in the section on the Messiah & The Star. The way he deftly analyzes the Old Aeon symbolism, rebuilding it for the New Aeon was like watching a master architect design his masterpiece. Hyperbole? If you want to take it that way but it has to be remembered I was once one of the most vitriolic commentators on the Outer College (Outside of Starr, who I admire greatly) am now an admirer of Gunther. By their fruits & all that.
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