Column 404, 405 and 406

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Column 404, 405 and 406

Postby Faust » Sat Aug 06, 2011 6:40 pm

How would I work with this beings? Should I use the usual Hebrew names of power or they answer only to the greek magical formulas and archon hierarchy?
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Re: Column 404, 405 and 406

Postby Jim Eshelman » Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:54 pm

Faust wrote:How would I work with this beings? Should I use the usual Hebrew names of power or they answer only to the greek magical formulas and archon hierarchy?

These are the specific hierarchies used by Aurum Solis. I recommend studying their works (primarily those of Denning & Phillips) to learn about them. You would use them in combination with the Atziluthic Names given in Cols. 309 and 310.
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Re: Column 404, 405 and 406

Postby Faust » Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:57 pm

I have not seen the Cols. 309 and 310, thanks.

Is there some rule that forbids or allows the combination of certain names of power? I see many rituals using both Greek and Hebrew and sometimes Egyptian gods and names of power.

Is syncretism to be completely avoided?
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Re: Column 404, 405 and 406

Postby Jim Eshelman » Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:38 pm

Faust wrote:Is there some rule that forbids or allows the combination of certain names of power? I see many rituals using both Greek and Hebrew and sometimes Egyptian gods and names of power.

Is syncretism to be completely avoided?

I wouldn't say there's a rule... more of a feeling of sound magical practice.

I suppose you can do any damn thing you want if you don't take any Beings seriously, if you don't grant any objectivity to them at all. I think that's a mistake, but I'm ackowledging the option.

Five points come to mind...

The first is the issue of objectivity. Do you (functionally) regard these gods, angels, etc. as actual objetive beings with whom you are communicating? Or, in the essentially equivalent sense, as the 'names' of objective and distinct frequencies or modes of consciousness on a particular plane? If so, then one must respect their own chains of allegiance. Raphael doesn't answer to Apollo, though He may extend Him a courtesy.

OTOH if you don't take them as objective, then their power primarily comes from chains of association and linkage that you build into yourself, either through a system of initiation to which you submit yourself or through some other pesonal work with them. In this case, are you reinforcing your association patterns or blowing them to pieces by running roughshod over your own boundaries?

Third, there are some historic combinations that are easier than others. Personally, I regard the Egyptian and the Hebrew as part of the same system (despite the root myth of the Hebrew people to the contrary), and combine them in certain select ways - but I can't prove any of that, and I'm very disciplined in how I do it. Etc.

Fourth, different gods demand being worshipped in different ways, and these are embedded in their cultures. You just don't worship Thor the same way as Zeus, or for that matter Dionysus the same way as Apollo (though at least they have some rites in common). Maat may have influenced Themis, but only if you take late-period Maat post-Alexander, and thereby ignore entirely that Maat is the mate and complement of Thoth. And really, don't try to approach the Orishi the way you would any of these others, because they're often jealous and demanding before they extend their friendship. Given this... how would you compose a rite that addressed many of them from many places?

Finally, I can think of one decisive exception: When attempting to tune to one specific planetary or other archetype, it's common to invoke Him or Her in a singular name, and then surround them with variations from other pantheons. (See Liber Astarte for a good example of this.) It "fleshes out" the broader picture of a single idea. But this is quite different from mixing and matching the chains of command descending from them.
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Re: Column 404, 405 and 406

Postby Faust » Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:20 pm

This is probably the most reasonable answer I ever received on the subject. Thanks.

I had a previous understanding of the subjective aspect, where the coherent use of a system enables a closer contact with those beings.
On the other I had no idea of how these beings relate to each other, like in your example about Apollo and Rafael.

But how would it work in a lower yetsratic level, like banishing a Hindu demon with Hebrew exorcism? Would it be right to say that it would work but using the right hierarchy would be more affective?
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Re: Column 404, 405 and 406

Postby Jim Eshelman » Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:25 pm

Faust wrote:But how would it work in a lower yetsratic level, like banishing a Hindu demon with Hebrew exorcism? Would it be right to say that it would work but using the right hierarchy would be more affective?

There a couple of theories that could apply to what you are doing there.

If the goal is to enter into the right hierarchical relationship with the Hindu demon and properly command it, then you'd need a Hindu hierarchy or some sort (at least some stronger Hindu being that would demand its respect on the astral).

OTOH you could just use whatever works to empower yourself to have a strong aura, power to clean a space, etc., and that raw power would generally clean most things.
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Re: Column 404, 405 and 406

Postby Takamba » Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:35 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:
Faust wrote:But how would it work in a lower yetsratic level, like banishing a Hindu demon with Hebrew exorcism? Would it be right to say that it would work but using the right hierarchy would be more affective?

There a couple of theories that could apply to what you are doing there.

If the goal is to enter into the right hierarchical relationship with the Hindu demon and properly command it, then you'd need a Hindu hierarchy or some sort (at least some stronger Hindu being that would demand its respect on the astral).

OTOH you could just use whatever works to empower yourself to have a strong aura, power to clean a space, etc., and that raw power would generally clean most things.


Jim, I respect that reply immensely... but ... if you are thinking specifically that you are dealing with a Hindu demon (specifically), I recommend you explore that deeply.
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Re: Column 404, 405 and 406

Postby Jim Eshelman » Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:36 pm

Well, yeah, you've got a point there. I was just answering the question as asked :lol:
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Re: Column 404, 405 and 406

Postby Faust » Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:59 pm

I`ve just found something interesting in Sword and the Serpent about it (doing my forum homework).
It says that the atziluth words of power have a more universalized effect since they are more de-personalized. Maybe this is a third theory?

One last question, and probably a stupid one. Can a single being have two different names? ( I will stop here before I get to much off topic)


Well, the disadvantage of not being a middle-age magician is that there are too many gods to deal with :bounce:
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Re: Column 404, 405 and 406

Postby Jim Eshelman » Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:08 pm

The Qabalistic teaching is that the name - meaning, the component letters and their specific sequence - and, specifically, meaning the powers of consciousness behind them - is what actually constitutes the being.

Within the context of this fundamental theory, the answer to your question would be: No.
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Re: Column 404, 405 and 406

Postby Faust » Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:23 pm

But the contrary would be possible since there are two guys called Michael, one living in Sol the other living in Hod?
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Re: Column 404, 405 and 406

Postby Jim Eshelman » Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:12 pm

Yes. Although, in that cSe, one is a Briatic being and the other Yerziraric.
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