Hitler and Master Therion

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Re: Hitler and Master Therion

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:21 am

Just an fyi, Takamba, in case you were replying to me, I've hidden your posts and won't see what you have to say (I assume--based on your post history--that it's something pro-nazi).

People: if your reasoning leads you to support the murder of innocent people by nazis, you can be 99.9% sure you're reasoning on the matter is disconnected from nuit.
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Re: Hitler and Master Therion

Postby Takamba » Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:32 am

Hermitas wrote:Takamba,

You are doing to Av precisely what you are trying to teach him is wrong.

You are defending the free speech of racists while you seek to silence Av through “correction.”

You are biased against liberals, and it would be 20 times more intellectually honest if you would just admit that you are fighting him brother against brother in favor of Nazis instead of taking this high phony position of unbiased “correct” teaching. It’s just your own brand of hypocrisy.


Here you have confused the planes. I'm strictly acting intellectually. I'm not telling anyone to stop, I'm telling them what I see wrong with what they are believing and saying. I'm not biased to libtards. I have many friends who are libtards. Hell, I spend two hours every morning in Starbucks. They love me there by the way, these libtarded green haired friends of mine. So I think you have me confused with someone in your head.
"If we are to have Beauty and Love, whether in begetting children or works of art, or what not, we must have perfect freedom to act, without fear or shame or any falsity."
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Re: Hitler and Master Therion

Postby Hermitas » Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:58 am

As someone who has been corrected over and over by you (“The Christians to the lions!”) the hypocrisy is just blatant.

You “correct” literally everyone here except Nazis.

Unconscious bias. Simple.
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Re: Hitler and Master Therion

Postby Hermitas » Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:05 am

I really beleieve you when you say you dont think you’re doing this.

But, I mean, it’s really obvious to anyone who’s been on the other end of your stick.
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Re: Hitler and Master Therion

Postby Takamba » Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:40 am

What I say applies to all. If the Nazis can't hear it, that's on them and the consequences will come. If anyone else also can't hear it, then the consequences will for them also come (death on a train?). There could have been "hope and help in other spells" for those dead bodies. There wasn't. That's not on me.

I have only a few times seen any pro-Nazi stuff here, and some of it I may have confused with humor. Others I'm watching to wait before I judge it. Those that I have argued with, it has been about their points (such as with you) and it's not my bad that you don't see it. I won't argue their love of pretty dress uniforms and desires for racial purity. That's there's to live with. I will argue with them when they get into areas that enforce on others those beliefs (ex. wanting to pass a law that encourages their behaviors).

We are all Nazis in some way. You cannot see a quality in another human being if that quality is not related in you. How you secretly marshal these qualities and how you publicly display yourself is what makes all the difference between these labels you espouse, these name callings that you believe you can use like weapons in an intellectual debate or discussion.

If I call you a faggot, what are you going to accuse me of? If I call you a libtard, what are you going to declare I do about it? But if I tell you that your reasoning is based on something not as universal as you think, do you think I have a better chance at convincing you to declare for yourself alliance to my ideals? This I believe in, you friggen Seinfeld sympathizer (not that there's anything wrong with that).
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Re: Hitler and Master Therion

Postby seekinghga » Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:59 am

Takamba wrote:That's not on me.

And just what exactly is "on" you? To become the embodiment of an ideal is the curse of a Magus, according to the A:.A:.. I shouldn't judge Crowley by any other standard, he did that. Perdurabo. It's "on" you to do what? Be the voice for those whom you don't agree with but have a notion to promote? Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Your own freedom is not predicated on any standard of belief. There are no unbalanced situations in the moral compass of others which need or require translation, save for if you are intending to disclose discourse tending towards freedom. Maybe that's what you seek to do. But it's not overtly effective if no one is asking. Nazis and other scumbags do not create a wholesome atmosphere for discourse or discovery. And, like I've said to you before, NEVER CUT AGAINST THE GRAIN OF THE WOOD!

"This is the creation of the world, that the pain of division is as nothing, and the joy of dissolution all."
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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Re: Hitler and Master Therion

Postby Hermitas » Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:15 am

Listen.

People who come here looking for answers in Thelema, they will see Nazism opposed and opposed well.

That’s valid.
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Re: Hitler and Master Therion

Postby mark0987 » Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:26 am

Got it. Free speech for nazis, murder for people who speak up against nazis.


My post was more about the fact that Liber Oz isn't particularly practical within a society which is not wholly Thelemic. It is only practical in a society in which everyone follows their Will, or at least, the majority. Sadly we do not (yet) live in such a world.

I think people who preach hate out of fear and hate of another person's lifestyle which does not directly affect them as being unthelemic. However, if I was to live by Liber Oz I would not be allowed to tell them such. My point is that Liber Oz is not a document which is representative to our society.

Most Thelemites who are actually Thelemites would be of the opinion along the lines of "I really couldn't give a damn what you do behind closed doors." Within a society of Thelemites, such as the OTO, Liber Oz would work beautifully. I think Liber Oz was written for the OTO rather than the world as a whole at this moment in time.
"Anybody who has been seriously engaged in scientific work of any kind realises that over the entrance to the gates of the temple of science are written the words: 'Ye must have faith.'"

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Re: Hitler and Master Therion

Postby Hermitas » Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:36 am

Edited

I was being a little too honest.
Last edited by Hermitas on Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:25 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Hitler and Master Therion

Postby seekinghga » Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:37 am

Hermitas wrote:People who come here looking for answers in Thelema, they will see Nazism opposed and opposed well.

Yeah, all 7 of them... Where is Jim? Did he abandon the site?
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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Re: Hitler and Master Therion

Postby Ab-ul-Az » Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:45 am

Why don't we see more Thelemites or any other group criticizing and condemning what have the Tribe of Judah done through history until the formation of their new home in Palestine now? I don't see Thelemites or any other group pointing towards the blatantly inhumane passages of the Torah and Sanhedrin about anyone who isn't a member of their Covenant (descendant of Jacob), because that have been the bases of the actions of their leaders, and that's what Hitler fought against, he actually fought for all of humanity not just the German people.

Yes, there might be flaws in the Third Reich at the time that are against some Thelemic concepts and philosophies which we can argue about, but it's the core of the movement that is of benefit for all noble, free and strong individuals and races, something Crowley called for too. You just can't deny that he occasionally flirted and admired the fascists, seeing the parallels between his movement and theirs.

I'm against any kind of covenant between a certain group and a deity as representative link or anchor between the mundane and spiritual, the same way the Jews have been doing it, no Germans no any other group, as in this new age the individual is the central star and gravity of his own universe, but that also doesn't mean total demolishing and denying of racial reality and cultural frontiers.

Regardless holocaust happened or not; I will still stand with Hitler's cause.
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Re: Hitler and Master Therion

Postby Hermitas » Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:46 am

Yeah....

I know... Let’s play count the Arabs in this photo.

Let me clue you in to something you may have missed: The resurgence of white-nationalism around the world isn’t because they want to be friends with Arabs.

Image
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Re: Hitler and Master Therion

Postby Hermitas » Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:58 am

Regardless holocaust happened or not; I will still stand with Hitler's cause.


Well, that just makes you a huge hypocrite based on what you said above.

You hate the Jews for their atrocities. But you’re fine with the attrocities of the Nazis. Because murdering a race is okay as long as it’s not tied to a particular god.

What complere nonsense.
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Re: Hitler and Master Therion

Postby Hermitas » Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:52 am

I’ll just say this... Within the context of Thelema, I am stridently opposed to racism and especially the slavery and attempts at ethnic genocide with which racism is unfailingly associated.

Thelema is for freedom.
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Re: Hitler and Master Therion

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:06 am

The state of Israel has committed atrocities against the Palestinian people. I think it's racist and awful.

Plenty of thelemites feel the same.

Non-nazis can have a rational conversation about it.

But you're a nazi, Abdulaziz, and the only point of the discussion for you is to make you feel good about the holocaust.
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Re: Hitler and Master Therion

Postby Ab-ul-Az » Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:12 pm

Hermitas wrote:
Regardless holocaust happened or not; I will still stand with Hitler's cause.


Well, that just makes you a huge hypocrite based on what you said above.

You hate the Jews for their atrocities. But you’re fine with the attrocities of the Nazis. Because murdering a race is okay as long as it’s not tied to a particular god.

What complere nonsense.

But if you read Mein Kampf, or even listened to the speeches of Hitler himself, he never mentioned aiming for the physical annihilation of Ashkenazi Jewry as much as he only criticized their culture, suspicious behavior and history, there were actually Honorary Aryans of Jewish descent (along other races), and concentration camps included all citizens whether Jewish or not who didn't help the improvement of the country at that critical time.

I will stand with Hitler's cause regardless of the truth about the holocaust because first National Socialism's aim is universal, and second because there's still no evidence that he personally ordered doing the genocide, and finally my own opinion that (IF) it did happen as supposedly ordered by Adolf Eichmann and Heinrich Himmler; then Jews deserved it because of their karmic history of mass killing and manipulating anyone who doesn't vow to their Lord (we see this trait in their Muslim and Christian minions), except they mostly did it with their black sorcery.

Just think for your self, why would a single man erupt so much hate and fear whether during his time or after his death, even though there have been countless other psychopathic figures who did more atrocious things? It's because he simply got the balls enough to fight against the current of Zion and their allies who wanted to dominate the world since the establishment of the Second Temple, if not earlier. Hitler and his people lost a physical war, but they won the spiritual war, you wouldn't have seen a Thelemite supporting them unless because of that.

Check this simple evidence:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/ ... n-massacre
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Re: Hitler and Master Therion

Postby Ab-ul-Az » Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:23 pm

Hermitas wrote:Yeah....

I know... Let’s play count the Arabs in this photo.

Let me clue you in to something you may have missed: The resurgence of white-nationalism around the world isn’t because they want to be friends with Arabs.

Image

Do they have to? They're calling for their natural right of having a nation and government made by the original inhabitants of its land, something I call for in my country too. I wouldn't want to see neither whites or any other race invading my country, but we would communicate like any foreign civilized nation with respect to our borders and sovereignty, what's so hard to understand or even remotely 'racist' about that?
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Re: Hitler and Master Therion

Postby seekinghga » Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:32 pm

Abdulaziz wrote:I wouldn't want to see neither whites or any other race invading my country, but we would communicate like any foreign civilized nation with respect to our borders and sovereignty, what's so hard to understand or even remotely 'racist' about that?

Yeah... Nazi sympathizer... Nazi. Racist.

Abdulaziz wrote:Regardless holocaust happened or not; I will still stand with Hitler's cause.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wrNFDxCRzU
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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Re: Hitler and Master Therion

Postby Ab-ul-Az » Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:49 pm

Mercurius wrote:Abdulaziz: we can hang brother. Same wavelength. Heil Hitler!

:)
SH!

--

So, this is the thing I've been looking for that mentioned Hitler (he actually did that countless times, referring also to the Herren Volk concept except he emphasized on the spiritual aspect while the Germans naturally did more on the physical at that time), it's found in his letter called 'Magical Power' in Magick Without Tears:
https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/crow ... mwt_64.htm

There's also the curious case of one Soror of the Order who actually believed Hitler to be her magical child, and how Crowley seemed to go along with it in the beginning but had his doubts and criticism of his character later, she's called Martha Küntzel.
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Re: Hitler and Master Therion

Postby seekinghga » Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:56 pm

Abdulaziz wrote:
Mercurius wrote:Abdulaziz: we can hang brother. Same wavelength. Heil Hitler!

:)
SH!

--

So, this is the thing I've been looking for that mentioned Hitler (he actually did that countless times, referring also to the Herren Volk concept except he emphasized on the spiritual aspect while the Germans naturally did more on the physical at that time), it's found in his letter called 'Magical Power' in Magick Without Tears:
https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/crow ... mwt_64.htm

There's also the curious case of one Soror of the Order who actually believed Hitler to be her magical child, and how Crowley seemed to go along with it in the beginning but had his doubts and criticism of his character later, she's called Martha Küntzel.

seekinghga wrote:You see, this brings up one thing about Crowley the prophet, he would latch himself to pernicious ideals simply to promulgate his own religion.


And, before you try to denigrate what I'm saying, you racist racist, do be aware that your discourse and divulgence will fail. It already has, and it will continue to. Fail. Nazi. Fail. You accuse me of attachment? HAHAHAHAHA! Good one, Nazi. I'm attached to the application of proper labels!
"And they that read the book and debated thereon passed into the desolate land of Barren Words. And they that sealed up the book into their blood were the chosen of Adonai, and the Thought of Adonai was a Word and a Deed; and they abode in the Land that the far-off travellers call Naught."
- LXV 5:59
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Re: Hitler and Master Therion

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:12 pm

Abdulaziz wrote:what's so hard to understand or even remotely 'racist' about that?

1. The original inhabitants of the United States are native Americans, not white people. Nazis/racists/Trump and his supporters are {******} that we even *talk* about the genocide we committed against them, or the treaties we are actively breaking.

2. Black people have been in America for as long as white colonists. The nazis in that picture were {******} off because a statue of confederate officer who had fought to preserve slavery was being removed.

3. The United States has allowed and continued to allow immigration. We can stop it, or reduce it. However the nazis/racists/Trump and his supporters want to limit it based on--you guessed it--race. The supreme court has struck down his travel bans for this reason.

Bonus round:

1. Saudi Arabia had legal slavery until 1962. The law only changed because of outside pressure.

2. Saudi Arabia is a tier 3 nation when it comes to human trafficking. This means that though slavery is technically illegal they don't take the minimum actions to stop slavery, and have no plans to. They don't prosecute it, and they punish complainers.

(Maybe you should redirect some of your anger about Israel toward your country, which has many human rights issues. You know, if you really care about human rights issues, and aren't just a Jew-hating nazi)

Conclusion:

Since racists have no problem with knee-jerk shame-bases labeling of people based on their skin color (to quote Takamba, it's just harmless spouting), it follows that they have no problem with knee-jerk shame based labeling of people based on their choice to spout racism.

They don't give people of other races the benefit of the doubt. I see know need to give them the benefit of the doubt and hair-split whether their variety of bigotry is really racist.

It is.
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Re: Hitler and Master Therion

Postby Ab-ul-Az » Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:42 pm

I understand it's quite hard for most Western white people to overcome all the systematic propaganda and even spiritual enslavement done by the Demiurge of the Jews, which they've been fed with night and day, but for us Arabs it's probably easier as we've been fighting with this monster on physical and spiritual planes for ages, join us with the blessings of Ra-Hoor-Khuit! :mrgreen:

--

US and all of its constitution as we know it is a freakin' dream and experiment from the Masons of the Enlightenment period hoping to be the New Atlantis, which is obviously failing and rotting from the inside now, with its mistress Israel watching, that's how it has been and will be. I commented on that picture in relation to white nationalists of Europe, I'm quite aware of the American ideals and mission which I'm against. And don't let me get into debate about possible existence of white people (Solutreans?) in the Americas long before the Amerindians who also happen to have certain beliefs and myths about the blue eyed and blond king called Quetzalcoatl, strangely you'll always find this civilization and race in the northern parts of almost every continent.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 47152.html
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Re: Hitler and Master Therion

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:57 pm

Abdulaziz, fyi I've hidden your comments, so if you've replied to me, I won't see it. I imagine it's something pro-nazi, and therefore idiotic.
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Re: Hitler and Master Therion

Postby Ab-ul-Az » Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:07 pm

Please someone send this video to your overtly sensitive friend who have disabled my posts yet keeps commenting on my thread. :mrgreen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvHNssuqYqc
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Re: Hitler and Master Therion

Postby Hermitas » Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:11 pm

Abdulaziz wrote:Do they have to? They're calling for their natural right of having a nation and government made by the original inhabitants of its land, something I call for in my country too. I wouldn't want to see neither whites or any other race invading my country, but we would communicate like any foreign civilized nation with respect to our borders and sovereignty, what's so hard to understand or even remotely 'racist' about that?


The flrst step always has to be close the borders.

Then disempower/remove the foreigners.

That’s where the racism spontaneously develops as a tool for turning public opinion to gain support for the removal - or genocide.

Every time. Everywhere.
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