What is "The Trance of Sorrow"?

[seekinghga]

93,
Is this supposed to be related to the feeling of loss that one feels when the things that were once valuable to him must lose their worth? Such as when making hallow the consciousness? I have read the essay on sorrow by Crowley. I am looking for contemporary points of view.

[deleted]

Have you ever seen the movie "Watchmen"? I think that's probably the best modern take on it that I've seen recently. At least, that's how I connect to it. Go see it and try to see each character as an aspect of yourself and as a different reaction to the same supernal knowledge. There are some very interesting relationships to be drawn.

I think we experience a bit of all the characters. The characters within us that die, die. The ones that adapt, adapt, though all are tormented in one way or another. What's the old story of the three Rabbis who entered the Garden of Paradise? One died, one went insane, and one became enlightened?

I think we have all these reactions. Whoever wrote that movie was ...insightful. Don't know if you were looking for a better answer than that, but as you were looking for a modern take on it, I thought it a great one...

Or, I don't know if I'm qualified to speak about it really. I guess that assumes a lot. But that's how I relate to the concept. I think perhaps the person who wrote the movie was qualified to speak about it, you know?

Peace.

[Jim Eshelman]

Is this supposed to be related to the feeling of loss that one feels when the things that were once valuable to him must lose their worth? Such as when making hallow the consciousness? I have read the essay on sorrow by Crowley.

Yes, you've described one common form this takes. It's hard to pin down because it hits different souls differently; but the key element, I think, is the certainty (based on experience/perception) of the transiency of everything - that nothing lasts (certainly nothing lasts unchanged) - often leading to a "So what the {****} does it matter?" type of experience.

I've seen it move through pretty much the same stages as have been documented for encountering death: denial, depression, rage, bargaining, acceptance. The final acceptance (different from a "caving in") is a very high state, and is one characteristic of stabilization in the 8=3 grade.

This "vision," of course, occurs at many levels - before one has begun the Work, at at the Path of Tav in poarticular; at Binah-in-small in each of the Sephiroth - and at other times. It's triggered by an element of loss, usually a loss of illusion (read: projections). It's highest experience (and some of the earlier ones) is marked (among other things) by a recognition of the inseparability between sorrow and love.

[FrAAAAAM]

93s

Hello,

It has been my personal experience that the Unimaginable Joy that accompanies each progressive state of Union, leading to an ever closer Proximity to, and Identification with Deity; is also accompanied with Sorrow at the Realization of the Transient Nature of the Experience, and the Vast Distance that needs to be Overcome in the Process.

The Mandala is Beautiful but is scattered so easily when the Wind moves all the Grains of Sand composing it.

I've been very Contemplative of Late and lack the appropriate words to describe this dichotomy that seems to... explain the experience.

I'm not quite sure if this is a similar experience to what is being referred to as the "Trance of Sorrow" or not.

Tiphareth comes out of the Left Side of the Tree, out of the Side of "Restriction", yet the Left Side also provides that "Martial" quality that seems to gear one up to attempt to advance further, and experience "Lovingkindness". The Sorrow leads to Joy and the Joy leads to Sorrow. The Seed rots in the ground before new growth occurs.

The best I can come up with sound pathetically like cliche's.

93 93/93

Dennis

[seekinghga]

Not even when the lovliest of flowers bloom
Will you breathe forever.

[Shunyata]

93,
Is this supposed to be related to the feeling of loss that one feels when the things that were once valuable to him must lose their worth? Such as when making hallow the consciousness? I have read the essay on sorrow by Crowley. I am looking for contemporary points of view.

93,

The Trance of Sorrow is, to Crowley, the perception that all mundane affairs are transient. Nothing one can do in this world will last. This leads one to find the one thing that is permanent, Spirit (bad word, but you catch my drift?). The Trance of Sorrow is often the precursor to starting the Great Work because of this perception.

IAO131

Seek all you want. All is transient.

[seekinghga]

93,
Is this supposed to be related to the feeling of loss that one feels when the things that were once valuable to him must lose their worth? Such as when making hallow the consciousness? I have read the essay on sorrow by Crowley. I am looking for contemporary points of view.

93,

The Trance of Sorrow is, to Crowley, the perception that all mundane affairs are transient. Nothing one can do in this world will last. This leads one to find the one thing that is permanent, Spirit (bad word, but you catch my drift?). The Trance of Sorrow is often the precursor to starting the Great Work because of this perception.

IAO131

93,
AUM

93 93/93

[seekinghga]

I must ask, as it has occurred to me:
Have any of you, after realizing the transience of it all, felt as if you are privy to some cosmic joke? You look at other people who are running to gather money, or buying things for their children's future, or seeking to become the next big rock band, or are planning "the rest of their lives" with a spouse, or are buying the best car, or are worshiping the biggest god, and yet they don't realize the futility of it. It is like, you know and they do not. Either they attempt to ignore it by acquiring wealth or fame, or they numb it with religion. Any thoughts at all on this?

[PatchworkSerpent]

I must ask, as it has occurred to me:
Have any of you, after realizing the transience of it all, felt as if you are privy to some cosmic joke? You look at other people who are running to gather money, or buying things for their children's future, or seeking to become the next big rock band, or are planning "the rest of their lives" with a spouse, or are buying the best car, or are worshiping the biggest god, and yet they don't realize the futility of it. It is like, you know and they do not. Either they attempt to ignore it by acquiring wealth or fame, or they numb it with religion. Any thoughts at all on this?

"For these fools of men and their woes care not thou at all! They feel little; what is, is balanced by weak joys; but ye are my chosen ones." - Liber L, 1:31

"These are dead, these fellows; they feel not. We are not for the poor and sad: the lords of the earth are our kinsfolk." - Liber L, II:18

[Jim Eshelman]

Have any of you, after realizing the transience of it all, felt as if you are privy to some cosmic joke?

Sure. Why do you think the Buddha is laughing?

Of course, one then remembers (at once or eventually) the key of humor: "It ain't funny if it ain't real - and it ain't real if it ain't funny."

You look at other people who are running to gather money, or buying things for their children's future, or seeking to become the next big rock band, or are planning "the rest of their lives" with a spouse, or are buying the best car, or are worshiping the biggest god, and yet they don't realize the futility of it.

There are truths beyond this, though. These aren't all futile actions. Possibly, none of them are futile actions. They simply don't have the meaning people place on them. For example, you don't do them "Because X..."; you do them because you are the kind of being so constituted as to do them. (That's just one layer: They aren't futile actions: They're examples of self-expression.)

[seekinghga]

Existence is joy. Joy can be called the state of not-mind which is comprised solely of consciousness; without attachment, variable, or assumption. The wind that blows is the same as the I who knows. There are no thoughts with which to divide one phenomenon from another. Everything just sort of "is"; pure consciousness, that eternal, beckoning Light.

One useful application of the formula of Aum is to the EGO consciousness. It begins as pure potential, quickly becomes suited to a particular form, and then after a period of time it ends.

[Aum418]

93,
Is this supposed to be related to the feeling of loss that one feels when the things that were once valuable to him must lose their worth? Such as when making hallow the consciousness? I have read the essay on sorrow by Crowley. I am looking for contemporary points of view.

93,

It relates to recognizing the First Noble Truth as well as the fact that all things material will fade. The equivalent practical response to this is in Matthew 6:19-21, "Stop storing up treasures for yourselves on earth, where moths and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal. But keep on storing up treasures for yourselves in heaven, where moths and rust do not destroy and where thieves do not break in and steal because where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."

Crowley puts it in the terms of becoming a Spiritual Being. In short, it is the experiential perception of the futility of looking for wholeness/stability/longevity in material things which leads one to the 'spiritual quest' which 'terminates' in Crossing the Abyss, annihilating all one is, was, and has. Only then can one master Sorrow, having become That which contains both sides of the coin in Itself.

If its a joke, its a bad one... then again every joke is at the expense of someone (the General makes the joke of Existence at the expense of the Particular in Book of Lies).

93 93/93
IAO131

[seekinghga]

93,

Crowley puts it in the terms of becoming a Spiritual Being. In short, it is the experiential perception of the futility of looking for wholeness/stability/longevity in material things which leads one to the 'spiritual quest' which 'terminates' in Crossing the Abyss, annihilating all one is, was, and has. Only then can one master Sorrow, having become That which contains both sides of the coin in Itself.

If its a joke, its a bad one... then again every joke is at the expense of someone

93 93/93
IAO131

93,

Your words are very inspiring IAO131. I thank you for them. Attachment is the forerunner of Sorrow. That's how things go.

93 93/93
PLL

[Middleman]

Whoever wrote that movie was ...insightful.

The Watchmen was originally a graphic novel by a magus named Alan Moore.
There's a great documentary about him called 'The Mindscape of Alan Moore'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cam2kK7J ... r_embedded

[atlantis]

Sure. Why do you think the Buddha is laughing?

Book of Lies chapter 14:

Kappa-Epsilon-Phi-Alpha-Lambda-Eta Iota-Delta
ONION-PEELINGS

The Universe is the Practical Joke of the General at the Expense of the Particular, quoth FRATER PERDURABO, and laughed.
But those disciples nearest to him wept, seeing the Universal Sorrow.
Those next to them laughed, seeing the Universal Joke.
Below these certain disciples wept.
Then certain laughed.
Others next wept.
Others next laughed.
Next others wept.
Next others laughed.
Last came those that wept because they could not see the Joke, and those that laughed lest they should be thought not to see the Joke, and thought it safe to act like FRATER PERDURABO.
But though FRATER PERDURABO laughed openly, He also at the same time wept secretly; and in Himself He neither laughed nor wept.
Nor did He mean what He said.

[underabloodredsky]

You look at other people who are running to gather money, or buying things for their children's future, or seeking to become the next big rock band, or are planning "the rest of their lives" with a spouse, or are buying the best car, or are worshiping the biggest god, and yet they don't realize the futility of it.

That's your judgement, futility. You are projecting your values on to others. To "them" it may not be futile. Their way of thinking may give it meaning. What do you value? Learning, perhaps?

Be careful with these thoughts, you must confront it with its opposite. Indeed, from a certain perspective, is not all the universe just the play of consciousness? Whether it manifests itself in the "play" of atoms or elements in space, or the of the play of puppies, children, or man-children? What you ultimately strive for is beyond this dualistic notion.

Remember to seek psychic balance and harmony. If you get too melancholic, it will hinder your progress and dampen your inner light.

[seekinghga]

To lock yourself away from the world, that is to say that "the world is transient and so there is no point in accepting or participating," (a form of what Crowley says, "willed dissociation") these are thoughts of the Black Brothers. As is the idea of saying that "they are fools for they cherish Maya and they are not worthy of me or my thought. I am a high-minded yogi or magician. I am 'here' and they are 'there'. They do not, can not, hold a candle to me." That is all pride-filled rubbish; the apotheosis of the transient Ego-consciousness. One must assimilate ALL of it--the "good" and the "bad," the internal and the external, the subjective and objective. Otherwise the Ego can not be held in check, it will be free to expand in its own world without an external "reality" with which to gauge and confine its growth.

"(The state of mind which is characterised by Indifference is commonly called Trance, but the misnomer is unfortunate. It is, in fact, in a sense the precise contrary of a Trance; for Trance usually implies Samadhi, and this state specifically excludes any such occurrence.) That implies a uniting, and this a willed dissociation. Yet there is nothing here to suggest necessarily any practice of the Black Brothers; for it is not, properly speaking, an Attainment, but rather a convenient attitude."
- LETT, Indifference

[Fr Cognosco cum Lux]

Death is not an end.

In the Hogakure a reference is made to the will of a samurai after his head has been cut off. He should still be able to perform One action after decapitation. Slaying the enemy with one cut for instance. Such should be his Will.
Sick people will sacrifice themselves and/or commit to suprahuman endeavours especially if they have a timeline. Or confront a disease or injury with Will to live.
Trance of Sorrow may come to ordinary people As a Banner of the Chariot. Something glimpsed before its time to Act, like waking up from A nightmare to save your family from the burning house.
Of course, I could be wrong.

[Aum418]

You look at other people who are running to gather money, or buying things for their children's future, or seeking to become the next big rock band, or are planning "the rest of their lives" with a spouse, or are buying the best car, or are worshiping the biggest god, and yet they don't realize the futility of it.

That's your judgement, futility. You are projecting your values on to others. To "them" it may not be futile. Their way of thinking may give it meaning. What do you value? Learning, perhaps?

No - I mean 'futile' in the sense of 'grasping at impermanent things as if they were permanent'... in the sense that attachment to material things inevitably brings suffering

Be careful with these thoughts, you must confront it with its opposite. Indeed, from a certain perspective, is not all the universe just the play of consciousness? Whether it manifests itself in the "play" of atoms or elements in space, or the of the play of puppies, children, or man-children? What you ultimately strive for is beyond this dualistic notion.

How is striving beyond dualism?

Remember to seek psychic balance and harmony. If you get too melancholic, it will hinder your progress and dampen your inner light.

No ones melancholic - its the old 'Im a realist, not a pessimist!'

93 93/93[/url]

[Aum418]

To lock yourself away from the world, that is to say that "the world is transient and so there is no point in accepting or participating," (a form of what Crowley says, "willed dissociation") these are thoughts of the Black Brothers. As is the idea of saying that "they are fools for they cherish Maya and they are not worthy of me or my thought. I am a high-minded yogi or magician. I am 'here' and they are 'there'. They do not, can not, hold a candle to me." That is all pride-filled rubbish; the apotheosis of the transient Ego-consciousness. One must assimilate ALL of it--the "good" and the "bad," the internal and the external, the subjective and objective. Otherwise the Ego can not be held in check, it will be free to expand in its own world without an external "reality" with which to gauge and confine its growth.

"(The state of mind which is characterised by Indifference is commonly called Trance, but the misnomer is unfortunate. It is, in fact, in a sense the precise contrary of a Trance; for Trance usually implies Samadhi, and this state specifically excludes any such occurrence.) That implies a uniting, and this a willed dissociation. Yet there is nothing here to suggest necessarily any practice of the Black Brothers; for it is not, properly speaking, an Attainment, but rather a convenient attitude."
- LETT, Indifference

Nice.

93 93/93

[seekinghga]

Of course, one then remembers (at once or eventually) the key of humor: "It ain't funny if it ain't real - and it ain't real if it ain't funny."

Jim, where is that quote from, if I may be so serious as to ask?

[Jim Eshelman]

Astrologer Jayj Jacobs in the 1970s. Consistent with Jayj's wishes, I've totally stolen it ever sense

(Because it's true! Funny, eh?)

[seekinghga]

Astrologer Jayj Jacobs in the 1970s. Consistent with Jayj's wishes, I've totally stolen it ever sense

(Because it's true! Funny, eh?)

: )

Love is the law, love under will.

[Uni_Verse]

It is that feeling you get upon first waking,
Staring up at the ceiling,
Laying in bed... wondering
"What is this all for?"
Until you awake,
To the memory of that Golden Dawn
And get your Self out of bed

[Middleman]

"If it's not funny, then it isn't true." Dr. Timothy Leary, 1965. Good thread.