Eris, and Qabalistic associations

[Mike]

93.

Hey everyone, it's been awhile!

I've been drawn to the Greek pantheon lately, and especially to Eris, since something about the modern philosophy of Discordianism has always felt Thelemic to me. Specifically, it's the idea that the appearance of order and the appearance of disorder are merely appearances, and that it's all just Chaos underneath our mental interpretational tools. I interpret Chaos in a Thelemic/Qabalistic context.

I'm aware that there's a difference between how She's viewed in Greek mythology and how She's viewed (more playfully) in Discordian philosophy.

I took a look in 777 (I don't have 776 1/2) and didn't see anything about Her in there. Does anyone (especially Jim) have any thoughts they can share about where on the Tree of Life She might be attributable?

93, 93/93

[Jim Eshelman]

Give your top (three to five) attributes of Her (in the sense you are adoring Her) and I'll give it a fly.

Purely mythologically, she seems a feminine expression of the Mars force, especially as Geburah. She is sister of Mzars, by some accounts the daughter of Nix (night), her name means "strife" - all that sounds like pure Geburah to me. This would allow for reflections of lesser expressions in Penh (or, I suppose, even in Tav).

In fact, the myth that makes her sister of Ares means she is daughter of Zeus and Hera. Now, THAT was one strife-filled marriage! So that's a damn fine expression of Peh as the strife between Hod and Netzach, Qabbalah's primary expression of "the battle of the sexes."

But this may not be the goddess you adore.

[Mike]

93.

I'm viewing Her as having the following traits (or at least I'm projecting the following traits onto Her based on what I know) - and I'm including my guesses as to how to attribute these:

1. Spontaneity/a creative type of disorganization, or maybe creation by dismantling the framework ("hmm, what if we just dump all of these paints on the floor and mix them around? Oh my God, that's better than what I was working on!") (This does seem Geburan now that I've written it out)
2. Mischievousness/"trickster" type of thing (is this almost Mercurial?)
3. Playfulness/folly/anti-seriousness (Aleph?)
4. Some quality of liberation, especially from overly-restrictive structure (more Mars), which kind of goes in hand with #3. "You've been slaving over this project for 4 hours and you're not getting anywhere - why don't you close the laptop and go paint the town red?"
5. Wisdom - revealing the inherent workings of the universe by putting the parts in seemingly contradictory or conflicting scenarios, emphasizing absurdity and the fact that a viewpoint and its contradiction are often both correct/valid. (Chokmah, unsure what else - Tav maybe?)

It's interesting that I didn't realize that She was attributable to Geburah, since the other Goddess that I'm newly interested in is Athena, who, despite being a warrior/wisdom goddess that Crowley attributes to Geburah and Chokmah (and Tav?), seems to have a strong vibe of Chesed as well... which Eris totally doesn't have.

[Jim Eshelman]

There is no Qabbalistic principle that embodies this mixture of traits.

Probably the best fit for the general mix (and grabbing all of them more or less as you stated them) is Alef.

As you probably know, this has essentially no connection to the Greek goddess Eris. This would have to go on a brand new table of correspondences for, say, Modern Synthetic Deities.

[Mike]

93.

Got it. Makes sense. Thanks, Jim.

93, 93/93

[Avshalom Binyamin]

In the context of the Discordian and Church of the Subgenius subcultures that I'm familiar with, I would say that Eris is kind of a Manic Pixie Dream Goddess--representing the energy, chaos, etc., of Nephesh, as a destructive/vitalizing force on the Ruach.

[Gnosomai Emauton]

About a year ago I rescued two kittens off the streets. Sisters. I named one of them Eris, the other Kali.

Eris has taught me quite a bit about what her name means, often in very unexpected ways. (Kali as well, but that's a different thread) Magick? Coincidence? Self-fulfilling prophecy? Whatever it is, your 5 characteristics above describe her to a T.

Chalk it up to the ramblings of the crazy cat-lady but I think you're probably right in not trying to pin her down to just one correspondence. Athena's all over the place in Column XXXIV and she's supposed to be the cool collected one. Why should we expect Eris to sit like a good little girl in just one box?

Also, just a thought to add to the list if you really are trying to pin down that Discordian minx: The great initiation of the Golden Apple (Illuminatus!) culminates in the violent death of the initiate (just as he's on the verge of... um... the little death). She's not just a trickster. Her intention is to tear off your preconceptions, forcefully if necessary. Jim's suggestion of Peh sounds right on target there.

[Mike]

93.

So I pose a question to y'all:

What's the difference between working with such a "composite/synthetic modern deity" and an ancient one? Is it just the amount of veneration by masses of people that adds energy into a particular form of... some kind of divinity? Is the former just totally "made up" and not comparable to the latter?

93, 93/93.

[Jim Eshelman]

Love is love.

[Middleman]

This topic is relevant to my interests.

About a year ago I rescued two kittens off the streets. Sisters. I named one of them Eris, the other Kali.

Me too, but I named them Eris and Isis. Weird.

[Mike]

93.

In the context of the Discordian and Church of the Subgenius subcultures that I'm familiar with, I would say that Eris is kind of a Manic Pixie Dream Goddess...

Random fact - I had no idea what the Manic Pixie Dream Girl archetype was until I happened to come across it just now in another context and looked it up... I thought you coined the term yourself

It's an awesome term. Gives me a lot to think about in terms of all of this.

93, 93/93.

[Faust]

In the context of the Discordian and Church of the Subgenius subcultures that I'm familiar with, I would say that Eris is kind of a Manic Pixie Dream Goddess...

Random fact - I had no idea what the Manic Pixie Dream Girl archetype was until I happened to come across it just now in another context and looked it up... I thought you coined the term yourself

The description of Manic Pixie Dream Girl sounds very nice-kundry nephesh projection (or Jung anima stuff). Cool.

[Anchorite]

Sorry to semi-Necro this but I have an anecdotal incident.
I was very into Discordia over 20 years ago and while doing the normal 'urban shaman' routine common amongst those who lived in Betsit Britain at the time of the Second Summer of Love (read - every psychedelic whe could get) and one night I'd checked my bank balance and it was zero. I was fairly chemically altered and decided to ask Eris to stick some cash in there. I went around the block with my friend , had a vision of a huge bear for some god unknown reason,and came back and , of course, £230 (I'm hoping you all get the 23 reference ) was the balance when I rechecked it.
There was never any mention of that deposit on the statement either.
We found the words of power most effective in any prayer or request to be 'Eris is a babe'. Since she kinda likes that in a - happy pixie elf that can destroy your life and /or city walls - kinda way.
She asks that you enjoy yourself a lot and not to get upset about any pranks in my experience. Dont turn down her gifts or she will either stop playing or play a little rough. But keep a sense of humor when working with her and she is honestly delightful. Do . Not. Snub. Invite to the party. - there's precedent


RAW had her related as far as I cam remember to pretty much every female archetype on the tree. To 'our lady of space' in some of his ideas in Cosmic Trigger , as a microcosm of Nuit. as the counterpoint of the Dwarf self /HGA , also as the Empress /Joyces Mother Goddess... I'm pretty sure he was obliged to use blinds but I think he was peaking a little too hard in that book as he himself admitted later.