Relationship with Pluto & Kether?

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Relationship with Pluto & Kether?

Postby [V] » Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:50 am

The tree of life diagram I've always been studying has Pluto assigned to Kether. I recently stumbled upon several discussions that state that Pluto is not assigned to kether, but to Da'ath. I found several other diagrams that have neptune assigned to kether.

According to liber 777 there isnt even a planet that corresponds with kether. Its the Primum mobile.

Why do some TOL diagrams assign pluto to kether? Have I been incorrect to be using this association in the context of Thelema?

Thank you,
-V
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Re: Relationship with Pluto & Kether?

Postby Jim Eshelman » Sun Jul 27, 2014 12:35 pm

Why? Well, because people are continually trying to sort out things they don't yet have sorted out, and people then make these diagrams :twisted:

Layer one is easy: Classical Qabbalah attributes no planet past Saturn to any part of the Tree of Life. Pluto, in this sense, is attributed to NO part of the Tree.

Layer two gets complicated: People have different views about Pluto and, in particularly, most astrological things written from Pluto's discovery in 1930 until well into the 1960s will have a very distorted view of astrological Pluto. Additionally, almost nobody alive has more than an intellectual idea about either Da'ath or Kether. So, when different people bring different definitions or understandings to two things that they are trying correlate, they end up coming to different conclusions.

For example, somebody might have attributed Pluto to Da'ath because they think that Da'ath is catastrophic and dismantling. IMO that's mistaking some phenomena - how some people react to Da'ath - for Da'ath itself. Or they might see Da'ath as a gateway to the underworld and take a mythological equation. Etc.

There might also be a historical reason. There was a trend, about the time Pluto was discovered, to already attribute Uranus to Hakh'mah and Neptune to Kether. Then, when Pluto was discovered, they needed a new box to fill - and Da'ath provided it.

I personally equate Pluto to Kether, but I don't teach this attribution because Qabbalah does not have this attribution. It's a personal invention. I'm entirely settled in my reasons for this and it serves me in practice. Three things about Pluto might help explain my view: (1)Pluto, at root, is that particular transformation that occurs one one truly gets trans-form, i.e., outside of any "extensions" into particular pattern. (2) Pluto, in practice, especially when interacting with other planets, represents complete disinterest or reaction against anything arbitrary, artificial, forcing into molds or patterns that are not intrinsic to what a thing is. (3) Pluto is inherently solitary, "outside the herd," outside the pattern.
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Re: Relationship with Pluto & Kether?

Postby Vadox » Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:09 am

I personally see relation between pluto and kether throught a crown and malkuth is kether and kether is malkut that may help. Also kabalistic map of soul and how this map interact is different between people, but core principles are still same to everyone.
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Re: Relationship with Pluto & Kether?

Postby PatchworkSerpent » Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:23 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:I personally equate Pluto to Kether, but I don't teach this attribution because Qabbalah does not have this attribution. It's a personal invention. I'm entirely settled in my reasons for this and it serves me in practice. Three things about Pluto might help explain my view: (1)Pluto, at root, is that particular transformation that occurs one one truly gets trans-form, i.e., outside of any "extensions" into particular pattern. (2) Pluto, in practice, especially when interacting with other planets, represents complete disinterest or reaction against anything arbitrary, artificial, forcing into molds or patterns that are not intrinsic to what a thing is. (3) Pluto is inherently solitary, "outside the herd," outside the pattern.

Continuing along this line of thought, how would you connect this attribution with the fact that Kether emanates Gimel, the path of the Moon?

Based on my own musings, this makes me think that Pluto, the planet of the solitary, the unusual and of 'the extremes' emanates the Moon - the fundamental expression of the Divine Feminine.

When compared against the Masculine ideal, which more often represents the centre or 'core' of being (the Sun), the Feminine ideal is often said to contain 'both the highest and the lowest' within it. For me, this is an interesting parallel to Pluto being the planet of extremes and of the farther reaches - making the idea of the Moon emanating from Kether (Pluto) both a reasonable and a fascinating one.
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Re: Relationship with Pluto & Kether?

Postby octinomos » Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:43 am

well, Keter should be before the Big Bang as the Creation of the worlds starts with Chochma, so there were no planets yet...
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